I knew what this was going to be before I clicked it. Great comic.

Peacock butterfly

Thank you, you were able to put the point I was trying to make much more succinctly and elegantly.

Sorry for the delay, I’ve only just got the chance to sit down and reply. To your point about incels, how would you feel if someone making a meme saying “all women are gold-diggers”. How do you react to incels saying things like women are trashy and only want trashy men and not good guys, or women are weak porcelain dolls and wouldn’t survive without men. Would your reaction not be that not all women are like that? That most women aren’t like that? This is the same shit, the genders are just reversed. Is it any less true if the rebuttal comes from a woman arguing in good faith vs an extremist TERF? I’m not defending incels, but if they sound the same as someone making a good faith rebuttal, maybe it makes young impressionable men and boys think they might have a point. And if they’re right about that, what else might they be right about? This is exactly how people get sucked into cults and far right groups.

I feel your example with guns (while still a generalisation) is different from this kind of meme because it’s about appealing to empathy. This meme is not doing that, it’s using shame to supposedly get men to reflect and change. I argue it’s not very effective, and there are way better ways to do this. You share one example - appeal to empathy. I’ve seen memes praising men for positive actions they take (e.g. green flag memes).

This kind of discourse is also harmful to transmac individuals. I’ve unfortunately seen trans men being ostracized from the very communities they relied on for support as soon as they ‘pass’. Once they look just like other men, they are seen as a threat and are unwelcome. If this kind of divisive language and approach only impact those doing harm to women, then fine. But it’s not and it’s doing a bunch of collateral damage in the process.

It’s shouldn’t be hard to point out positive role models without resorting to belittling people. Most men have strengths (literally) most women don’t - let’s talk about how they can use those strengths to be a positive force in society. I see way more jokes and memes saying men are trash rather than talk about how they are can be important and positive part of the movement towards equality. Just like the LGBTQIA+ movement would never have made it as far as it did without the help of our allies (and trust me I’m not giving them most of the credit), we’re never going to get equality and freedom across genders if we don’t work on bringing men as our allies too.

It’s clear you’re not going to change your mind on this, so I’m tapping out. My last appeal to you is, if your end goal is for women and men to be free of the patriarchy, you should focus on actions and messaging that work to change people’s minds, and less on trying to be “right”.

Is defending people from unfair characterisation based solely on their gender “coddling” now? In the space of two comments you make the argument that the meme isn’t about all men, then tar them all with the brush of “primary perpetrators”. Do you really not see the problem? Yes, fight back against actual perpetrators, but don’t use a machine gun in a crowded room and take a bunch of other people with them. There are other ways to convince men to fight against the patriarchy (of which they are also victims!).

You may think no one is saying “all men”, but I promise you I’ve seen this very discourse online and irl. My question to you is, what do you hope to achieve with these memes? To voice your anger, or change people’s minds? I’m not defending those who perpetuate the patriarchy, but let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot by alienating men who would otherwise be on our side if they didn’t feel like they had to face an angry mob. Please, let’s not use the same weapons used against us for millennia - it’s not working and frankly I am concerned it is starting to actually backfire (see: young men throwing themselves into the arms of the far right). We are literally playing into the hands of those who want to divide us.

Lesbian here, so maybe not the target audience for this. However this kind of meme and discourse makes me somewhat uncomfortable. Like, really? Pedro Pascal is -the only nice guy- in the world, every other guy is trash? Too often I hear women speak about men as if they’re inherently bad people, rather than victims of the patriarchy just like them. It reeks of “that’s just the way men are” and “boys will be boys”, except now it’s being used to shame and admonish. Shame isn’t going to change mindsets, it’s only going to make people defensive. It’s not as if men are genetically assholes, but these kinds of memes sure make it sound like they are.

It bothers me because I have a son who will grow up to become a man (at least that’s how it’s looking right now). I worry about what he internalises when he hears that people expect he’ll grow up to be a sexist asshole, just because he was born a boy. I have to defend against that just like I defend my daughter when sexism is directed at her, because frankly that’s exactly what it is. If I were told from a young age that the default expectation is I’ll grow up to be trash just because I have a penis, why bother to do better? I’d probably also listen to the Tates and Petersons who make me feel good about myself instead.

I understand why women are angry and frustrated, they have every right to be. I’ve also been on the receiving end of sexist and frankly traumatic shit because I was born a girl. I just don’t feel like it’ll get any better by creating more division, more “us vs them”.

Honestly, I’m ok with where The Owl House ended. It would have been better to have a longer season, but I’m ok with where it ended, I got the closure I needed. There are however other animation shows I’m pissed ended way too soon:

• Glitch Techs
• Mao Mao: Heroes of Pure Heart
• Inside Job

These were all great shows that deserved better than what they got.

written by Jesus on punchcards

I just want to say thank you for that line, it’s beautiful. I’m absolutely going to steal it.

I never knew laundry could be so threatening.

A lot of women don’t want to sit on the toilet seat, for fear they’ll get dirty or “catch something”, so they hover and proceed to pee all over the toilet seat. Also men’s toilets usually don’t get exposed to menstrual blood and products. I can absolutely believe women’s toilets are way more disgusting than men’s.

Underwater hockey is also a thing

You’re heteroflexible?

This seems to imply that death is the only way we’ll ever escape that pile of clean laundry you have yet to put away.

Congrats on coming out and being your true self, that was a very brave thing to do.

Your mother, like many parents, had hopes and dreams about who you would become as a person. She’s now being faced with the prospect that those hopes and dreams are dead, that the person she thought you would become is gone. She’s going to need to grieve and from what you’ve written here it seems that process has started. Shock, denial, bargaining, some level of acceptance. I expect anger and depression might show up at some point. It doesn’t necessarily happen in sequence and can cycle too. She’s going to need some time to process, but what’s positive is she’s not outright rejecting who you are, there’s room for her to grow.

My parents weren’t hostile when I came out as gay, but I heard similar things - it’s just a phase. Are you sure? Was it something we did? Where did we go wrong? What will your life become? Over time they came to accept it and told my extended family (including my very religious Pentecostal grandmother). Everyone is now very welcoming of my wife and my parents are delighted to be grandparents to our kids. I know it’s not the same, but there is hope for things to get better, just keep being authentically you.

Yeah I’m demi and that bit stuck out to me as well. Like, I’ve no interest in this guy, ripped or otherwise, but like I mentioned above, the left version of him seems more approachable. I can envision a scenario where it’s easier to envisage being with a person based on their ‘vibe’ even without having spoken to them. It’s like a foot in the door in a way.

I don’t know why but imagining Wolverine in a cosy sweater is sending me

Disclaimer: I’m a lesbian so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I’m not surprised women vote more for the photo on the left. He just seems friendlier and more approachable, someone you would have fun hanging out with, so I guess that anecdotally gives credence to what the author is saying. The photo on the right looks like someone who’s a bit too intense, and I say this as someone who is also trying to get somewhat ripped. It’s funny because when I’m at the gym almost a lot of times I assume the super ripped dudes working out there are bi or gay, and more often than not I’m right. I know it’s judging a book by its cover, but clearly that aesthetic appeals to other guys (who are also into guys).

I refuse to get a phone without a headphone jack. Mostly because I know I’m inevitably going to lose my headphones, forget to charge them, forget them in my trouser pockets that will go in the wash. The latter has happened at least a couple of times with my current headphones and they still work just fine. Try that with your Bluetooth pair and let me know how it goes.